Like a moth drawn to the flame I'm continually drawn in to fire of EmergentNo.

Leighton, I have to give you a ton of credit - I read your comments and interactions over there, and I think you're representing the best of Christian charity. I think it's folks like yourself, RobbyMac, and Jamie (for example) who have contributed to what looks like a slight (ever so slight) softening of the rhetoric over there. At least there's been constructive dialogue lately, which is a step in the right direction.

man o man, this post brings a lot of thoughts to mind.

the disagreements and the discourse can prove valuable.. but only if there's some momentum along the way -- as if perhaps, we're both serving in a soup line, and we disagree on which part of the tray the green beans should go on, so we decide to talk about it after lunch, and so, people are still getting served and moving through the line. people are still being fed.

it really can be that simple.

too much coffee, again. thanks for a great post, my friend.

The issue I see at the core of this whole emergent-no, emergent-yes argument is worldview. It's almost pathological, the sum of our experience and internalized messages predispose us to react in a certain way. The problem is that no amount of arguing or slander is going to change, absolutely, the position of another who differs in view. Only the Holy Spirit can do that (or perhaps arguing can in a simple common sense type discourse, which this most certainly is not - much to the chagrin of the non emergent). When and where the Spirit decides to alter pathologies is a mystery and one that Paul struggled with. If it were a matter of words, then we would most certainly have far fewer epistles and perhaps no Gospels at all.

For my money, I'd love to see us no's and yes's drop the faceless writing in opposition and spend a week in mission together serving and singing heartfelt choruses of "Kumbayah" into the wee hours of morning.

At that point we may all see together one church, emerged.

Jeff, I keep asking myself whether I should be reading this stuff. Is it a distraction or is it something else? I don't know yet. I've tried to have a few productive conversations with folks who disagree, but I haven't yet had one make it far enough to be productive.

Chris - I'm with you on that vision. Heck, I'd be happy to continue to disagree as long as we can respect the other perspective. I'd just prefer to not be called "demon possessed", you know? ;)

Faceless is a good way to put it, and probably a lot of the problem.

Last night I was speaking to an older friend of mine about how she was raised in the midst of holiness theology in the UMC. Her mother was one of nine children and the only one who did not accept the teaching of this second grace, this total sanctification. They actually took their children to movie houses. *The horror!* The rest of the family thought they were on their merry way to hell.

As the years went by, however, a difference became evident in the cousins' lack of discernment and apathy toward God and my friend's family's passion for following Christ and doing the work of God. No one understood it. But in the midst of the pain of hurting families, they began to come and ask questions and seek help from the very people they had condemned.

We won't achieve unity overnight. It's the work of our lives. Pray, weep, love - and let us not become weary in doing good. Our brothers and sisters, and indeed the nations of the world, are worth it.

Peace, brother.

At the risk of sounding like a shameless hussy of self-promotion, I chimed in with my own comments to the post, "Regarding Absolute Truth" on the emergent-no site. Scroll down. Scroll waaaaaaaay down.

Yeah, I know, just what we needed, right? More commentary - like the world hasn't got enough already. It's not that the discussion isn't valuable, I'm just wondering if there aren't other investment vehicles out there with consistently higher rates of return.

But then, what do I know? I'm a shameless hussy!

I commend you all for your bravery :)
I don't have the energy or the patience I'm afraid, and probably too sensitive too if I'm honest :(

1 Cor is a great Epistle it talks about not causing brothers to stumble, (10:27) it calls for unity in the body and most of all it talks about LOVE. that is what I long for that I could disagree in love. Right now I find that hard, if not impossible, so better to keep my BP under control and keep quiet :)

hope you aren't so tired now
REST in the Lord and find our HIS DIRECTIONS :)

be blessed

as one banned from e'no I know how you feel.

Do I walk away?...

i wish I could!

Apologies for the delay in responding to your thoughts (see next post).

Scott - good thoughts. Great ones, actually - the long term view is significant. I was having a discussion with some folks in my MDiv cohort this weekend about the emerging church. A few people voiced the question of whether this thing is even going to be around in twenty years or so. And that's a good question, I think - is this just a flash in the pan or is there something of substance here? I think (and hope) the concerns of contextualization, mission, community, and kingdom will remain, whatever the form.

[rhymes] - excellent thoughts you posted. I wonder if anyone will respond? I guess one reason to keep pushing the discussion is that for a lot of folks in the more, um, traditional/conservative streams (not the best characterization, but I can't think of a better one) the issues you raised there aren't kingdom issues. Sad but true, and I know I'm not telling you anything you don't know - not to generalize, but I think it's a fair statement with the recognition that there are certainly exceptions. But as for that "higher rate of return" - I ponder that every time I wade into one of these discussions. It usually results in my exit within a week or so.

Lorna - a wise decision, I think. ;)

Hamo - I actually remember that whole fiasco in the early days of e-no. It's that whole "train wreck" sensibility that keeps us all coming back for more, I think. ;)

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